What's happened to the beautiful game?

Leeds Pioneer · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:23 am Post subject:

Oz - great read, wonderful memories Smile

Oz White · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Harry

Well to be honest I had intended doing three separate ones, but tempus is fugiting and I'm away on holidays soon. I am hoping to add to another theme or starting another to let people know a few behind the scenes happenings before I go but it won't be as long as the aforesaid triple-decker Wink

Thanks LP, no problems. It was a priviliged time Smile

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

halfaperson · Allan Clarke Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 752

Ta for the read Oz. The towns Gear production this afternoon has suffered a bit though Laughing

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Modest Schmodesty, I was the finest Center Half this Town has ever produced since Roy “Kipper Feet” Ellam Cool

. Since you’ve asked I did play at a good level particularly in my teens and early twenties. Right up to 16 I didn’t contemplate been anything else other than a professional footballer. I played for Huddersfield Town boys team right from being Eleven year old. Got a picture that ill post sometime of me at Boothferry Park in the Yorks Cup Semi Final where we got a pasting of Rotherham Boys. Twas a great day though. Spent the journey sat next to and talking to the great Ray Wilson a mere four years after he won the World Cup Very Happy

. His son and me spent 5 years playing together in our school team and Town Boys. In fact i found his lost World Cup Kit bag when Neil Lost it. Story even made the local rag

Tragically the idiots at Leeds Road couldn’t see a quality Center Half when they had the chance and made their biggest mistake since letting Bill Shankly go and completely shattered my dreams. Mind you me mum bless her was right when she said never mind im too good looking to be a footballer Laughing

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All the quality football in Huddersfied was Saturday Afternoon so I played in The Halifax Leagues on Sundays to allow Saturdays free for the mighty whites. By this time i was going to away games regulaly as well with a crowd from Brighouse/Huudersfield.Incidentally the reason I chose Hollywell Green to play for in Halifax was they played In All White. To be honest although I loved playing, the scene was awfull. Full of big headed disco loving cortina lads who I had FA in common with so gradually the playing side got sidelined untill a brilliant indoor league was set up in Town playing during the week.

Like you Oz I was an avid autograph collector. I was brought up on the estate at the top of the hill behind the old open end at Leeds Road so it was dead easy to run down kilner bank and watch the players training. It was absolute heaven when the FL made Leeds play a couple of games there after the West Brom shenanigans. That plus Leeds came to play Huddersfield twice. The first time 70/71 at Easter hundreds of Leeds Fans rampaged in the nearby fair then set fire to Kilner Bank Twisted Evil

Two things that will always stick in my mind from those days. Jack Charlton is a genuine football Star and gentleman. His Brother though can kiss my arse the horrible grumpy old pillock. We use to also go to the hotel on the M62 where lots of teams stopped to collect autographs. It was there and Leeds Road that lifetime impressions of footballers were made. Alan Ball was fantastic for instance and Frannie Lee a wanker of the highest order. All it takes is a friendly word or rub of the hair and a footballer has a fan for life. Even in those "good old days" Wink

it was too much to ask of the likes of Lee, Humpty Dumpty Charlton and a few others.

Hardly think its wallowing in sentiment to analyse the past and try to put today in context. Its important to measure progress by comparing now with what’s gone before. For instance hows the missus going to know if she’s done good if you dont compare her to the Ex or Your mum. Ok you might think it’s an imaginary starting point but surely no one can say that it wasn’t different. Surely the point of the thread is to examine those differences for better or worse. If its ok to mention another forum the Peerless Mr Bastard has posted a brilliant youtube link on SqBall. I defy even MrH not to get ever so slightly nostalgis at it. It made my back tingle. If anyone can post it here that would be great. Would do mesen but am the proverbial techy numpty

Ive got hundreds of memories I could relate in particular the eras you missed but it may get tedious and too indulgent. In any case im going to save them for my book Wink

. One ill share with you though is the site of Chris Galvin walking back home after He played for us against Huddersfield or at least was in the squad . He lived about a mile away from us and actually walked up Kilner Bank and past our house on his way home after playing for possibly the best team in Europe at the time Shocked

. Tragically we lost to Town that day Crying or Very sad

. A neighbour shouted at him "Hey Chris you’ve picked the wrong team". He laughed, shrugged his shoulders,waived and carried on walking through the council estate to the posh houses down the road. Cant See Rio Ferdinand doing that somehow

Oz White · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: Halfa

gotcha! but I can't find a smiley of reeling in a fish Embarassed

I knew your story, but I honestly thought that, like me, you had been too modest to go public previously, and it would remain untold, but I am glad I was wrong.

We had two players who had trials with LUFC, but it does go to illustrate how hard it is to first of all get a trial, then progress through the ranks, become a professional and then make the grade. So many good players have fallen by the wayside, and I have to laugh at posters who malign players for their inadequacies and wonder just what standard they attained Rolling Eyes

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As you know the only LUFC player I have ever maligned was Duberry, but it was not without due cause and giving the reasons. His deficiencies are such that I can truthfully say that IMHO I have played against better centre-halves in my time, but the worry is that some people have told me LUFC now have players worse than him Shocked

I did cut short my account of my "football career" as I thought I had said enough! The reason I left for Australia was like this. A very good friend and his wife, emigrated to Australia prior to my leaving for my 2.5 year "tour of duty" in Central America. He had played with our team in Sunday games, and we both decided to emigrate to Australia. But I was six months away from finishing my articles (apprenticeship) and he left to go by himself but wrote back saying it would be better if I had some money behind me. Hence the CA sojourn and hence the fact I only fulfilled the six month UK residency required at the time for a ticket to Oz. Mick was captain of a team in Brisbane that played in the Queensland League and asked me to turn out for them. I got a second opinion on my heart problem and got the insurance excess taken off and the OK to play football again. I'd lost a bit of condition during my layoff but almost got back to speed and played the last half of the season. The games were on the UK pools, like Littlewoods and Vernons Shocked

and I was able to send a few free tips to friends! I'll tell you what, It ain't half hot in Qld! and I wasn't happy with my fitness or my form and I gave it away. I am glad I did, because when playing in an over-30s Charity match a member of the opposition died of a heart attack. He was younger than I. It prompted me to have more extensive heart checks and to cut a long story short, I am glad I did!

I have to agree with your assessment of the Charlton brothers and of how impressions are formed, but mine were formed a few years before yours. But things didn't change much in the meantime but would certainly have subsequently.

I notice JJ has resurfaced, I might just re-bait my rod and reel

He has a few anecdotes on "Mighty Whites".

Exclamation

might put a few up on my website if time and space permit Surprised

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

Jailhouse John · Jack Charlton Joined: 14 May 2007 Posts: 132

Oz - I am so pleased to see that you are posting again. I have missed your considered remarks on all things LUFC.

You and I have talked a lot about our childhood together and how LUFC played such an important part. We shared those days and they provide a unique incite into supporting a team in immediate post war England as well the camaraderie that was forged between us.

Your stories paint a golden picture of a more Corinthian attitude to sport (like you I was only ever booked once in my amateur career and I played until I was in my early 40's) however I will take issue with one comment you made.

The issue of diving - as far as I recall LUFC had the finest 'diver' the game ever invented in Albert Nightingale and when he died a couple of years ago I wrote his 'Obit' in Sq Ball and eulogised on his ability to get penalties seemingly at will leaving 'Big John' to do the business from the spot. It was always doen with a smile on his face and the defender (as well as the ref probably) knew he/they had been well and truly conned.

Welcome back to the Forums Oz. Put the hot chocolate on readers you are in for some long nights!!!!

_________________
JJ

From 'ER' to Eternity

Oz White · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject:

ron devie · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject:

Quite a strange occurrance is the strong sense of nostalgia being conveyed through the technology of the internet - I like i

As has been stated football used to be about the poeple - the club, the players, those behind the scenes and very much the fans and the local community - football was shared and enjoyed equally amongst these groups. Nowadys football has been maniupulated by high earning greedy 'business' types into a product that they then try to sell to as wide an audience as they can manage - the most obvious part of that audience being adoring fans - whom they have been abusing for a good few years now I believe.

_________________
love, light and peace

Billy04MyHero · Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 78

halfaperson · Allan Clarke Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 752

You don’t see the changes as they happen. Its like the hands of a clock going round. Looking back though there have been quite a few significant changes on and off the field. Some for better and some for worse.

The tackle from behind seems to have been all but obliterated and that has to be a good thing. This has allowed skilful strikers to confidently receive the ball and develop incredible touch. The pendulum has swung too far in their favour though. So much that tackling as a skill has almost vanished. Couple with the hideous skill strikers have acquired of falling over and cheating the ref, tackling now is a risky business.

Fitness levels and diets are another significant change. You would have assumed that this and all the protection the players get there would be less injuries. In fact it’s the complete opposite. The number of injuries a club gets during a season is staggering.

Another mandatory grumpy old man observation is about the ball. I haven’t kicked anything other than an ugly dependency on Crisp sandwiches for ten years so was staggered when I caught another pin point Eddie Lewis shot on goal in the kop last season. It was ridiculously light. I’m guessing the boots have been re designed to cope with this lighter ball and become lighter. This has certainly contributed to the game becoming much faster but maybe also contributes to the alarming injury rate.

Could rumble on and on about the subject of change but well see how the thread carries on Cool

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One quite alarming change a few of us have seen off the field is the worrying demographic change of the fans especially at Elland Road. Take a look around and you will see that the vast majority of fans are white blokes in their late thirties and forties. I fear we have lost a generation or two of fans. Directors, players, mangers etc come and they go and Leeds United carry on. Not without the fans though. If Mr Bates or the next incumbent doesn’t address that we will be in deep doodoo, err bigger deep doodoo I mean.

Oz White

Halfa makes a very good point and, while the header to the theme is a nonsense, it has happened. As does evolution in all its shapes and forms in football and life in general.

In the 60's before the advent of the non-leather ball, the leather ball attracted water like a sponge. The ball skills attainable were far different from those of today. There used to be plastic "beach balls" which were sometimes used for five-a-sides or indoor training. It was like chalk and cheese. The power and swerve you could get on the "beach balls" was phenomenal and keepy-uppy was a breeze! Guess that was the source of the modern-day ball!

Previously I and others have touched on the changes to players kit, footballs and equipment, rule changes, substitutes and squad sizes, fitness levels and other items which has changed the game now on view. Now there is an army of medical and other back-up crews to aid the coaching and fitness of the players. Long gone are the days of Manager and Trainer who performed those tasks between them! Directors/Shareholders have also moved with the times and everything now is on a purely business basis. The "benevolent fan" along the lines of Harry Reynolds and Jack Walker have all but died out. Players have gone from bus-travelling or walking, on slightly above-average pay to a fleet of prestige car-driving millionaires. EPL players attain that status at a very early age, but in the lower reaches they have their dreams.

Fans have changed too, as have the viewing and ground facilities. Leeds has always been a two or more code city. Rugby League flourished in Leeds and the hinterland to the south with literally 20 or more teams vying for the fans affections along with LUFC. Huddersfield Town, for so long United's big brother, before acknowledging second place in the late 60s were just one of several Football League clubs within a 20/30 mile radius competing for the fans affiliation. The coming of the Motorways only increased competition to a wider radius, but conversely brought a larger source of fans, in the good times. Apart from the hardcore element of support, it can be reasonably said that the average fans are "Glory-Hunters". The attendances reflect that, by and large, varying with the success of the team. This season would enforce that theory.

Evolution has occurred gradually and, depending on when you got on the roundabout, you will have varying opinions as to the severity and speed of the changes. Grounds were changed forever by the events of the Taylor Commission after the Hillsborough disaster and before that the entente cordial had disappeared between rival fans in the early 80's. This I found very sad, as returning to UK just before the midpoint of the championship season of 1968-69, I found it still possible to co-exist with rival fans on a friendly basis, with friendly banter and no physical repercussions. But those times seemed to change in the next decade and a half, with segregation of the fans enforced because of gang warfare which became prevalent in the meantime.

Players wages relatively speaking have gone berserk, but the advent of the EPL and the revenue flooding the game from TV and sponsors seems to have been the catalyst. Compared to the average wage, the wages of footballers (depending on status) are out of all proportion compared to the pre-EPL era. To think the likes of John Charles and Tom Finney were paid £20 p.w. when the average was £10 in the 50's and cases like Johnny Haynes and George Eastham saw a few receive the magical £100 p.w. in the early 1960's as the £20 cap was removed for elite players. The LUFC legends played for a relative pittance compared to today's players. Peter Lorimer has claimed to have received £250 at his peak earning capacity! In today's terms that would be £2400pw or £125,000 pa. Just for comparison, Ferdinand earns that in a week! Market forces dictate, but it all seems out of whack to me and even worse when compared to the average working man! Good luck to those who can get it! Laughing

Not having seen any live United games since Cardiff, I cannot comment on the fare being served up at ER, but the standard does not seem to have improved since my last viewing. Apart from the Millenium disaster, I saw Crewe, Plymouth and Reading at ER and the visit to Deepdale. The football was dire and of a standard equating to the A-League in Australia. With the exception of table-topping Reading who seemed to elevate United to their level. My comment at the time was Shaun Derry was the only LUFC player remotely of EPL standard! It now seems there are few of CCCL standard or am I being misinformed! Confused

EPL standards are quite good and this is reflected by performances of elite teams in Europe. However, some games can be brilliant and some teams are a joy to watch, but there are a lot of poor or mediocre and boring games. Guildford White made a very good point about the predictability of it all. Since the advent of EPL in 1992-93, who has won the League? Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea, with a token single win to Jack Walker funded Blackburn Rovers. Basically unless Liverpool or some other team can show some consistency, it is the way it will stay unless another Abramovich can fund an assault on the grip of the big three. Money and its sources dominate the game, eliminating the unpredictability and less stereo-typed approach to the game of days of yore. Thank goodness for the unpredictability which rears its head occasionally when Bolton upset Man U or Arsenal and Liverpool both lose their unbeaten tag on the same weekend to the lesser lights of Middlesbrough and Reading.

The gulf between the top 4 and the rest, and the top 10 and the rest in the EPL is immense. Those positions being predictable from the kick-off of each season and confirmed not far into the New Year leaving the relegation fight as the only close fought contest. Because of the revenue of the EPL teams the gulf with the CCCL is widening too, but apart from Reading and Wigan there seems to be an ever increasing tendency to "Yo-Yo" teams, with the benefit of the parachute payment to get them back in the top flight. Unfortunately this is the plight of LUFC and the problem they face to regain their position of former eminence.

A further point is that many foreign players and coaches have been attracted to England and in particular the EPL by the rewards and have without doubt enriched the game. However there are many not so good players that have been imported and feature in preference to younger English/UK players. The enlarging of squads has meant lack of playing time for some players and the loan system has thrived as a result, but one cannot but help observing that the UK international teams seem to have suffered as less players are playing regularly at elite level.

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

HarryofOz · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:32 am Post subject:

Hey Oz, welcome back.

There are two things that have changed the game - irrevocably in my opinion, one is the TV money and the other is the Bosman ruling.

The TV money - which is essentially going almost exclusively to the top flight - has lead to an increasing gap between rich and poor. It has also enabled the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and others, but those four are a cut above the rest, to build up massive squads of 20 or more full current internationals. This has meant an ever-increasing stream of talent too fewer and fewer clubs. No sooner do the likes of Everton produce a Rooney than he is on his way to the big four and the same sort of thing occurs in Spain, Italy, Germany and any of the other top leagues throughout Europe. This leads to more success and more money for the elite teams and the vicious circle continues. How long before Micah Richards is dazzled away from Man City?

The flow on effect is that the next level of club - the Spurs, Everton, Man City of this world grab whatever remaining talent there is and they too have enough money to build substantially sized squads albeit not of the footballing elite.

This continues to the next level of club the perennial premier league strugglers who are still too strong for the lower divisions and hence we have the yo-you effect that you referred too. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that had it not been for our financial meltdown we would have bounced straight back up to the Premiership.

The creation of the Premiership and the narrowing of the TV financial rewards to the Premiership clubs is now being felt more and more. The last couple of years and this season in particular we have seen many lower league teams hit rock-bottom financially. Does a day go by when we don't read of a team approaching or going into administration?

The financial crisis faced by the lower league teams has been exacerbated by the effects of the Bosman ruling which has seen the elite teams being able to pick up ready made talent abroad and locally. Why risk a youngster from Crewe or Huddersfield or Arbroath when you can pick up Dirk Kuyt or Ashley Cole or Wayne Rooney relatively cheaply because their contracts will soon be up. You then have a ready made talent, a player who will attract media attention and fans and a player who is more likely to bring you instant success - something fans and directors demand nowadays. I'm not talking about youngsters - the elite clubs are still willing to plunder young teenagers from the ranks of the lower league clubs.

How many of the players that Revie brought in for Leeds were already superstars and household names when he signed them? What are the chances of discovering a Keegan at Scarborough nowadays?

I started following the English game in the late 70s so I missed the glory years of Leeds but I can remember how Liverpool - the best of that era - used to operate. They'd buy talented players from the lower leagues and develop them slowly in the reserves structure and a couple of years later you'd seen that player emerging as a talent. That simply doesn't happen anymore - they either grab these players as kids or buy ready made talent and as I said relatively cheaply too.

I think we can get back to the premiership but I can't see us ever regularly challenging the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd...the financial power those teams have is already too immense for anyone to catch up with. Look what happened last time we tried too eagerly. Ironically I feel that had we been a bit more patient in trying to close the gap and had we not risked it all on the roll of a dice (for that's what it appears) I think we would now still be up there, at least regularly in the top six. We certainly had the players to do it even without the money spent on Rio, Fowler, Keane and the crock from Derby who's name escapes me for some reason.

Football has changed and will not change back. I think the current trend will continue and fewer and fewer clubs will become viable. I wouldn't be surprised to see a European Super League one day will have a negative affect on the teams outside the elite. More and more clubs will go to the wall or become part-time. We will then be in the top division in England but I doubt we'll be in any form of European Super League.

Personally I think its a shame the way its gone. I'll be honest to say that I might think differently if we were one of the big boys.

I don't like the fact that the FA cup is becoming more and more irrelevant - it used to be a showcase event. It still is to some extent but its not the same as it was. Can you imagine a lower league team in the 70s giving up home advantage in a plum cup tie for the sake of a few more pounds? I can see it happening today - in fact I think it has on a couple of occasions.

I don't like that fact that some countries have 3 or 4 teams qualifying for the champions league (or the fact that its a league to begin with). Of course I enjoyed our run in the champions league after finishing third and would never have degraded our win had we won it, but its way too easy for the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Milan, Inter, Juve, Ajax, PSV, Lyon, Barca, Real Madrid and so on to finish in the top 3 or 4 of their league and have a crack at being called the champions of Europe the next season. And even if they fail in the champions league they are given a second chance of European success in the UEFA cup - how ridiculous is that?

The advantage of the way football has evolved is that you get to see more high quality football with the tv exposure and the league system in the champions league but the big disadvantage is that the spread of talent and quality has narrowed and is narrowing all the time. Don't get me wrong if Leeds won every trophy between now and the day I died, I'd be as happy as Larry (whoever he is), but its still a shame that I can't watch a match outside the top league with any decent players in it.

_________________
There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there're four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.

Oz White · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: Cheers Harry!

Can't argue with any of your points raised or opinions expressed.

HarryofOz · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Cheers Harry!

30 Mill · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject:

Money - Not TV money per se, just the advent of professionalism

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Oz White · Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:02 am Post subject:

Oz White · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Loyalty!

Loyalty in soccer, what's that?
01/08/2005 13:36 - (SA)

You can't blame a footballer for wanting to make as much money as possible.

It can be a very short career, and many footballers have sacrificed education in their quest to make it to the top, so when they finally retire, their plan is to have enough money saved up that they can live comfortably without having to go out and work.

Unfortunately, injury can happen at any time, and so a number of young players have had to start at the bottom of the job pile because they had no education to fall back on at the end of their careers.

But there has to be a moral obligation between the player and his club, that if they look after him, he will do his best to give everything he can in order for the club to be successful.

If the player is well paid, and plays regularly, then he can have few complaints about his treatment, and so you would expect him to be a loyal employee.

Unfortunately, in the world of international football, there is a distinct lack of loyalty between players and clubs.

Opposing examples

The opposing examples I want to explore are those of our very own Lucas Radebe of Leeds United and Rio Ferdinand of Scumchester United.

Lucas has just had the honour of a testimonial match, awarded by the club to a loyal servant who has given 10 years of service to his employers.

I am sure there have been times when the club were frustrated that their well paid defender was sidelined through injury, often sustained while on international duty with Bafana, and yet they had to keep on paying his salary (rumoured to be around R300 000 per week).

Lucas acknowledged Leeds' commitment to him, by never being interested in any other offers, and apparently there were quite a few during his prime where he would have made more money.

He stayed loyal to his team, even when they got relegated, and his example is a shining one to youngsters around the world about the forgotten virtue of loyalty.

Then there is Rio Ferdinand, still the most expensive defender in Britain, who cost Scumchester United over R300m when he moved across from Leeds United a few seasons ago.

He is undeniably talented, and often looks like he knows what is going to happen a few second before anyone else.

But he has shown himself to be more interested in money than in his commitment to his team.

Banned from any soccer

This is the same player who was banned from any soccer for eight months for failing to take a compulsory drug test - yet his club continued to pay him his salary (around R900 000 per week!)

Rio has an agent who only makes big money when his client (Rio) transfers from club to club.

Why would he want Rio to stay at United, where he would only make a percentage of his new signing on fee?

Chelsea have millions to spend on players and so his agent has indicated to United that if they don't pay him a lot more money, he will not renew his contract and will be moving off in the way of Stamford Bridge.

If United were paying him a measly R500 000 per week, or if they had stopped paying him while he was suspended, you might find an argument for Rio's desire to leave.

But he is being well looked after, well paid, plays regularly, and is even allowed to play with a dodgy hairstyle - but he still wants more money than Ruud Van Nistelrooy.

United have not won a single trophy since they signed Rio and is yet to score a single goal for the club - but he wants more money.

There is no loyalty in football - the saying is that if you want loyalty you should buy a dog.

I just wonder what example Rio is setting for the millions of kids out there who look up to professional players.

I know from personal experience how well respected Lucas is among his peers and among fans of all shapes and sizes.

I just wish there were more Lucas Radebe's in the football business than Rio Ferdinand's.

# George Dearnaley represented Bafana Bafana during the 1994 World Cup qualifiers and is a fanatical Scumchester United supporter.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Written in 2005 by a South African Man U supporter, but still relevant today.

N.B. £1 = R10
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One of the reasons for the changes in the beautiful game was when money became the over-riding factor and permeated in plain simple Greed and ultimately at the expense of fans. To the majority of players, particularly EPL players, loyalty is paid only to the mighty dollar, no matter who is proffering it!

Looking back, in the mid to late fifties when there was still a maximum wage of £20, it was an entirely different set of circumstances. Along came Johnny Haynes and George Eastham to raise the bar to £100 for elite players. There had been the tempting of such players as England stars Neil Franklin and Charlie Mitten to Bogata in the early 50's and our own John Charles was tempted by the lure of the lira as were Gerry Hitchens and others. They were later followed by Denis Law, Jimmy Greaves and several others. There were very few players making the trip in the opposite direction as the pay in England was not very lucrative and was generally restricted to the tried and trusted "Home" Countries. So the seeds were there.

There always have been, and always will be loyal individual players, but a quick scan of the appearances for LUFC and other teams will show that their prevalence have diminished since the advent of the EPL. Even given that some are current players and the possibility to improve the numbers, Gary Kelly is the only one to trouble the scorers, but is way down the pecking order.

There was a loyalty to the club which was reciprocal, but with Managers and Directors having the same lack of loyalty to the club the turn over of players is unabated. The demand for success and participation in Europe is paramount and the failures are always going to be more than the successes, but the pouring in of money trying to buy that success carries on with gay abandon.

So loyalty, or the lack of it, raises its head everywhere for the successful few, reaping the rewards of being with the right team at the right time!

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

HarryofOz · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:20 am Post subject:

Now please don't take me for being a Rio apologist but I don't think you can compare his situation to Lucas's at Leeds - he joined just before the financial meltdown and we were always going to offload our better and in-demand players at the time.

However there is no doubt that greed is prevalent in sport as it is in society in general only it is more marked in sport because of the money involved and also because sport has a factor that no other business/industry has and that is the fan. The clients of Barclays banks wouldn't give two hoots if the managing director got a better offer and ran off to ABN Ambro, for a football fan, players leaving their beloved club for another is sacrilege - after all they would never do so, while a bank customer is probably more likely to swap banks.

The argument that a footballer's career is short and therefor he should take the money and run is I think relevant to the early part of a career or to a footballer in the lower echelons of the game but it certainly does not apply at the higher level. Of course the footballer is perfectly entitled to go to the highest bidder, but let's not take the 'he needs to secure his future' when that footballer is probably a millionaire a few times over already.

An elite footballer's career may only last 20 years as opposed to another professionals 40 or 50 years but his weekly earnings will more than make up for it. Something like 500 to 1000 pounds per week as a 18 year old. Smith just before he left us for Man Utd was on 40,000 pounds per week that is 2 million in on year - how many of us will earn that in our lifetimes never mind in one year - so his future is already secured. Plus the huge earnings early in their life time can be invested so that retiring at 37 or so can be a doddle.

And don't tell me that a player on 60,000 pounds a week at Club A needs to earn 75,000 pounds a week at Club B to secure their financial future...I'm not saying they can't do it but lets not pretend that the reason is a basic as securing a financial future - it is about ever increasing luxuries for themselves - again that is their right.

As for sacrificing an eduction - well for most of them its a laughable alternative.

So there is little loyalty in football on the side of the players and little loyalty on the side of the Clubs but what about the fans.

The fans are certainly loyal to their team, but what about to players?

Let us assume that Leeds get promoted this season - what is the bet that the message boards will be full on threads clamouring for players A, B, C and D to be sold and players W, X, Y and Z to be bought - where is the loyalty to the players who did the job of getting us promoted. No doubt the fans will say that these players are not good enough for the Championship and they want the best for Leeds - and again they have every right to do so, hey I'll be doing it myself...but given that we fans are prepared to throw a footballer on the football scrapheap (albeit that he'll earn a pretty penny elsewhere) as soon as it suits us, what right do we have to demand loyalty from those self-same players? Another good bet - if we miss out on promotion and player's G, H, I and J demand a transfer to clubs in a higher league, they will be branded as Judases, traitors and disloyal scum.

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There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there're four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.

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