What's happened to the beautiful game?

Oz White · Last edited by Oz White on Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:38 am; edited 6 times in total

and supporters in general and specifically LUFC Evil or Very Mad

I guess it depends on your generation, but you may not believe this, but when I started having an interest in football things were far different to the situation that prevails today and radically so.

As a lad in short pants, I spent Xmas Day 1949 badgering the life out of my Dad and Uncle to convince them they should take me to the football match over that Xmas period. I must have done a pretty good job, as next day they took me out into the big bad world of Barnsley to see my favourites take on the locals.

It was marvellous, people were so friendly and let me go down the front and the local sprogs were just as happy as me to get a good view of proceedings peering over the wall. There were over 27,000 people there that day and both sets of supporters mingled freely and friendly, just happy to cheer and watch their teams. It was all unsupervised, no stewards except to show people to their seats in the stand like cinema usherettes, the police presence was minimal and I cannot remember seeing them.

Out on the pitch I saw all my favourites, who I had visualised from newspaper reports and pictures in the YENews (there were two in those days and we didn't get the YEP!). They were brilliant from their "dubbined" boots to their "Brillianteened" or "Brylcreemed" hair. There was a man mountain called John Charles, and the captain Tommy Burden who immediately became my personal favourites but a little twinkled toed winger called Davie Cochrane, who I had already pencilled in as a favourite was not playing and the equally diminutive and twinkle-toed Harold Williams was so close I could almost touch him.

Barnsley had some good players too, but I couldn't figure out why their goalie was a big strapping lad with a mop of reddish hair and the left winger was a little scrawny bald bloke, they didn't look like brothers to me. My Dad later explained that the goalie was Irish and the left winger was Scottish and they were not related even though they were both called Kelly!

The next day there was a re-match at ER and they took me along and the crowd was almost 48,000. Procedure was a little different this time. There was a special place for me to go. It was called the "boy's pen" where all the schoolboys (can't recall any schoolgirls but maybe there were Laughing

). Anyhow you were ensured a good view and I was put on pain of death if I didn't wait in the pen until My Dad and Uncle told me it was safe to come out after the game.

This was great as now I knew who some of the players were without looking at the programme and they were so close I could see the sweat on their brows, but even more amazingly Davie Cochrane was playing and in my little mind how could a team with my four super-stars in ever lose!

I think I must have been a lucky charm. As they suddenly changed from being "the mugs" into a team that was feared throughout the land. History tells us they were one of the best teams United had, especially in their Second Division days and became the first United team to ever grace the quarter-finals of the FA Cup. I mean, how could anyone beat my team of super-stars

When a goal was scored there was a quick shake of hands and at most a slap on the back, it was no big deal. The fans cheered, yes, believe it or not, if the opposition scored a good goal both sets of supporters would appreciate it as they stood side by side on the terrace.

The game was quite physical then. Slide-tackles were all the rage and no self-respecting full back would fail to put the ball, the opposing winger, and any linesman who got in the way, into the second row of the stand or the nearest available wall! The keeper had to put up with a buffeting from some meaty bustling centre-forwards and withstand a legal shoulder to shoulder charge! However you did not see many players diving, or feigning injury or shirt-pulling and all the things that would later creep into the game as the European influence was felt. Only cheats and pansies did that, and, as there were no substitutes, players would hobble around while ever they could stand.

The pitches in winter were like a rock in the freezing, and like mudbaths in the rain, with grass sometimes apparent near the corner flags! The ball was a piece of water-absorbing leather complete with a nozzle that was carefully hidden beneath a lace which was a hazard to headers and it was far more of a challenge to control and head than the present day equivalent, but I do remember the advent of the plastic unlaced ball in the mid-sixties, accompanied by the first "adidas" boots and substitutes amongst other things. The players of the day must have thought they were in heaven! I know I did!

Off the field there was the coming of the removal of the minimum wage and players went from a maximum of £20 per week to the unbelievable situation of Johnny Haynes earning £100 Shocked

On the terraces there is behaviour which questions civilisation and bon-homie between fans is non-existent. I remember as late as 1965 having a beer with the Liverpool fans, after the Wembley Final, and of standing with four other United supporters totally unharmed and having a laugh with the Liverpool supporters on the Kop as United won the League in 1969, maybe even starting the chant "Champions". Could be! I don't fully recall but they certainly did rise to Billy and the boys and we went back to the pub with some of them after the game!

I could go on listing the evolution of Football but I hate what it has culminated in and would like to hear other people's thoughts and experiences.

Suffice to say that IMHO the game has degenerated into something that I am not proud of and it has sold its soul progressively to the mighty dollar.

Specifically at LUFC we have seen the team which fought for little recompense and as if their pride depended on it, into a mob of over paid underachievers with no pride at all.

Put the pride back in Leeds and it starts at the top!

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

HarryofOz · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:01 am Post subject:

A great read mate

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There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there're four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.

Oz White · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:21 am Post subject:

Cheers Mate I did it progressively to prevent losing it, guess you must have read it while I was putting the finishing touches to it .....Hence the edits

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Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

Guildford White · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:23 am Post subject:

My nomination for post of the year! notworthy

As a relative youngster I didn't see Leeds until 1962 (when John Charles was there in his second coming) but I still relate to what you say about the vast differences between the sport of then and the business of today.

There's no going back of course, but it was a far far better game back in the day.

Tommo · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:17 am Post subject:

Great read!!! Thankyou!!

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cardboardbox?Youwerelucky · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 am Post subject:

Great post - in complete agreement

We will never have players (at any club not just Leeds) that WANT to play for the club - it is all about the mighty £

Even youth cannot be counted on anymore since when you have anyone of any note they just get gobbled up by the bigger boys

I remember years ago in a comedy film (which name escapes me) an american footballer joining a new club an saying "I am so proud to be playing football for the mighty Washington" before someone whispers into his ear and he then says "the mighty New York" or something like that - but is was a great example of how "loyal" players are - they have no idea about the club just how much they get paid Evil or Very Mad

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Cockney White · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:50 am Post subject:

Thanks for that Oz..You've still got it, Mate..

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"LEEDS UNITED CONTRA MUNDUM"

raveydavey · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject:

Well said Oz Very Happy

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Shhhhhh! It's a secret:
Secret Leeds!

BillH · Allan Clarke Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 510

All things change - no point yearning for the past and wishing things were as in the days of yore. They aren't, and they'll never be the same again. You can either wallow in nostalgia or face reality and make the best of it instead.

halfaperson · Allan Clarke Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 752

Well thats true Bill and i think thats what we are doing now. You've hit the nail on the head by saying make the best of it. In those days we didnt need to make the best of it because it was the best. I know what your saying though.

Still it was a nice Trip down Nostalgia Avenue Oz. Cant really confirm the friendliness of the crowds in the 60s though. My first Ever Game Between Huddersfield and Bradford in a West Riding Cup Match resulted in a right brawl that yours truly was in the middle of as a seven year old kid. It was the reason I started on this incredible LUFC path as it happens. All down to me Dad and his pissed up mates who came from Leeds. They must have been rowing with the Bradford fans because it kicked off and I got a clattering from a copper. Hence a lifetime of resentment to them both and a lifetime following the mighty whites. First two visits to ER were against the then European champions, (Salford City or something) and not long after that Chelsea. Both games shall we say, were a long way off the friendliness you encountered at Anfield.

The game certainly has migrated from its working class roots and sporting principles. There is an argument though that says it was this class that nearly killed the game completely in the Eighties with sickening violence and racism. Maybe it needed to be rescued from this stranglehold.

Personally I feel the game in general has escaped me. It certainly isn’t the game I fell in love with both playing it and watching it. To be honest I rarely watch a game that doesn’t involve LUFC or England. Much Prefer a RL super league game on TV. It actually sickens me to the core watching the antics on the field of players when they try to get another player sent off, surround the ref in protest, dive, spit and all the other pathetic stunts they pull. When I hear some of the utter garbage and blatant dishonesty the managers speak after games I feel like putting a foot through the telly. Half2 laughs at me but I feel betrayed and cheated by these bastards who have stole my game. Take Leeds United away and I would not set foot in a ground again.

Oz White · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:21 am Post subject:

Firstly thanks for the kind comments all but one of you have made. Bill, as usual you miss the point, which certainly Halfa and others didn't. It was a comparison of now and times past and a look at how we arrived at the present nadir both on and off the pitch and the way of life in general. It also gave people a chance to tell their own story and their thoughts on what might be the answer. The next time I see a positive post from you on any subject will be the first!

Over the years I have known many friends and acquaintances with the common interest of a love of LUFC. I have watched hundreds of LUFC matches up and down the country when I have been in the UK. The instance I cited of the trip to Liverpool to watch Billy and the Boys lift the trophy came about because I gave the four friends/brothers a lift there. "Big Dave" could start an argument in the middle of the Sahara desert, so he was under firm instructions to "zip" it. There was a bit of friendly leg pulling but it was all in good part and the scousers made us aware of the best place to stand and told us to be careful of the "niagra falls" which sometime occur when men and the bogs cannot be united easily! It was a great day/night and the local constabulary of Rochdale were not appreciative of our revelry at 3am in the morning as we stopped in search of liquid refreshments.

Nowadays, my trips to UK are becoming less frequent, but in EPL days it didn't matter as United were on Sky almost every week, but now the standard of football on view is abysmal and there is little pride shown for or by the club apart from the supporters. Still I will probably drag myself to watch LUFC play and take a carload of fervent supporters with me if I go to away games, happy in the knowledge that they would do the same for me, given the chance. Happily a friend, who like myself has over 50 years of support on the clock, acquired a ticket and was good enough to drive all the way there and back to Cardiff. I will always be eternally grateful for his kind act, it was an act of true friendship from fellow Leeds supporter.

This enabled me to see and meet the Watford supporters and there was always a friendly word and I guess I must have been in half-a-dozen photo shots with different people. There was certainly no animosity and no-one tried to get their retaliation in first! It restored somewhat my faith in human nature and proved that people can co-exist in a friendly atmosphere if some idiot does not make a goose of himself. I know there are idiots about, but surely the vast majority of people are sane and looking to live in peaceful co-existence. The chant of we are Leeds or Marching on Together sends a shiver down the spine of all supporters. If you are Leeds it is one of pride, if it's the opposition it's just the wish that they were part of it! It sends a message far stronger than any confrontational chants by either set of supporters.

To be honest I saw very few games first hand in the dark days of the eighties and was quite alarmed when I saw the difference ten years had made. Was this where it all went wrong? Or was it before that? Being herded around like cattle is not very dignifying. At Cardiff people were basically treated like human beings and from what I could see responded accordingly. If someone wants to pour dutch courage down their throat and act like an idiot that is their problem, but unfortunately police (and opposing supporters) look for the lowest common denominator and zero in on that mentality, and the vicious circle begins.

Many other people will have their own views and experiences, this is what I am trying to elicit, so come on Bill do something positive for a change. Tell us of your visits to watch LUFC and of the friends you made there, your experiences of what you saw on the pitch and your observations of factual events that you have seen with your own eyes, there is a first for everything. Rolling Eyes

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

cardboardbox?Youwerelucky · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:03 am Post subject:

Oz - I started watching Leeds in 1980 (I think) and then regularly from 1982 onwards - I have been fortunate enough not to be involved in rucks with opposition fans (although the odd chip van and trashing of the P2 bus have sometimes happened - although I had nothing Rolling Eyes

to do with any of those) - I think the mentality of the police back then didn't help but I also agree that the mentality of some of the supporters left a little to be desired - however there is nothing funnier than seeing a few police starting streaming into the Kop to then see the whole Kop sing "lets go fucking mental" for 5 minutes and see a few Bobbies "bobbing" around losing their helmets (harmless fun in my opinion - not theirs I might add)

I have been in away ends for some of Leeds games the last one of which when I was entertaining a client for the Leeds vs Man City game at ER (first game of the season with Terribles as the manager) and it was not good even then to be on the end of the abuse from the idiots at the far end of the west stand.

I think the all seater stadiums have taken the hearts out of the atmosphere of every club - yes there are occassions when EVERYONE wants to sing but get seated next to several people who don't and the "english" factor kicks in and some people decide to stay quiet as well - when you could stand you would sqeeze into the Kop and it seemed everyone except those on the outer edges would be singing - I think this was obvious when you had the dark years of the 80's with a ground & kop half full - we would all huddle together in the middle (not unlike a monty python sketch Rolling Eyes

) to get that feeling of togetherness and create an atmosphere that would be hard to better with a full ground today.

Would I swap now for back then - tough one - the quality of the football and footballers has increased but this could be attributed to playing on a billiard table pitch - can you imagine how good the real "greats" of Leeds would have been on todays pitches? As for the players themselves - the Bosman ruling killed loyalty as it meant another option became available to the players to make even more money, sky money completely transformed football in the 90's, at the time it seemed great as you could buy some real quality players and overseas superstars flooded the premiership - in hindsight it is sending football and footballers to a place where eventually people will stop caring - I have heard many people talk about watching non league football as they see players playing for the rewards of playing and not the £ (and even then the earnings have seaped down to some non league levels as I once asked a farsley celtic striker if he wanted to play 5 a side football for our team and he told me he wouldn't get out of bed for less than £500 per game - his name escapes me for now)

Football is no longer my be all and end all (as it was in the 80's and most of the 90') but I still get pissed off EVERY weekend when we lose and that is something that is so hard to "explain" (especially to the wife who often tells me not to bother listening / watching and just look out for the score at the end Shocked

) - I wonder if the next generation of supporters will have the same passion for the club as my generation (30's - not the 1930's Evil or Very Mad

) and those older like my dad - or whether they will see Leeds lose and then just go upstairs and play their nintendo Wii's Rolling Eyes

and whether todays "clubs" are just a reflection of society in general (blimey that's deep Shocked

)

So to sum up - I was there when Brendan Ormsby scored a glorious header in the 82nd (ish) minute against division 1 QPR in the FA CUP, I was there when John Pearson (somehow) scored a hattrick against sheffield united, I was there when Carl Shutt scored a hattrick in his first game (I think against Bournemouth), I was there when Andy Williams (?) walked the ball into the net after a tremendous through ball from John Sheridan against Plymouth (in one of the most dire matches of that season), I'll never forget Peter Shirtlifter scoring his header in extra time in the play off final, Vinnie Jones' debut & season with Leeds, the mighty gordon strachan scoring goals at will, David Battys, Gary Kelly & Gary Speeds debut's for Leeds, David Bennett nicking the ball off Big Brendan Evil or Very Mad

, Anders Limpar scoring an unbelieveable solo goal against us at ER, the grace of John Sheridan & Gary McAllister, the guts of Ian Baird & Bobby Davison, the commitment of Neil aspin & Chris Kamara & Mel Sterland, the classiness of Tony Dorigo, brother like Ian & Glynn Snodin and the magic of Tony Yeboah, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, and (dare I say it) Eric Cantona Evil or Very Mad

I could go on and on (and have Twisted Evil

) so I'll leave it there

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BOXYS BAR - LIQUER UP FRONT AND POKER IN THE REAR

BillH · Allan Clarke Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 510

I'm sorry - I guess I just didn't get my point across. What I'm saying is that nostalgia inevitably means donning the rose-tinted glasses. I admit I don't remember the 60s, but I do remember the 70s and onwards, and the "beautiful game" described above is not something I recognise. The only place I think it existed was in nostalgic memoirs. My earliest memory of football in this country is of the fans on buses talking about how they were going to give the opposition fans a good going over today - and trust me they weren't talking about who would chant the loudest. I remember some football matches which were so outright violent and vicious that it was not so much a case of a "man's game" as a "thug's paradise".

So for me trying to analise what has got us here when you are starting from a completely imaginary position is pointless. That's why I normally don't have much truck with this sort of wallowing in "they don't make them like they used to" sentiment.

Billy04MyHero · Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 78

It's not just a case of being nostalgic. Whenever us Leeds fans get together we are forever reminiscing. Because we have been going for so long and because the only time we see some Leeds fans is at matches, then we do get to talk about past times. It's not because things were better or worse, I remember lots of times just hoping that I would get home safely because of the violence in the 70s.

I have met lots of people over the years and even if I don't see them for a long time, it seems like only yesterday. Leeds fans have a camaradeship that will always be there because of our love of Leeds and our loyalty.

kevin177 · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject:

Just read that post oz and i found it a fascinating read, somebody earlier , i think it was guildford white, nominated it for post of the year, i wholeheartedly second that.

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Oz White · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:10 am Post subject:

Over the years, firstly on SB then MOT and sometimes on Waccoe, I have talked about Football in general and Leeds United in particular. It was usually at length peppered with examples and facts as well as anecdotes and other items of interest to the reader. I know that basically they have always been well received even though it does require a person’s concentration for more than a mille-second!

Because they are illustrated by reminiscences of past events in my life, I guess parts could loosely be described as nostalgia, but it does not necessarily mean that I want to change the world, and neither do I want to go back in a time machine to a by-gone era nor do I expect the present world to revert back to those times. My basic intelligence tells me that cannot and will not happen.

Quite often my “posts” have more than one theme and they are intertwined, as was the case, with the initial post and, I guess, this one. The original was meant to send out more than one message, but mainly it was my usual attempt to get people thinking and eliciting their own thoughts and anecdotes. I thank all people who have done so and encourage others to do the same. It’s a matter of time and if you have something interesting to impart, I guess.

A major problem is that of generation. We seem to come from many different generations, but each one has a tale to tell and it certainly is bringing out a divergence of views from mine, but that is great because that is what I wanted!

I came from a different generation than most people. My “story” started with a boy of wide-eyed innocence discovering the world of LUFC. It is true there are no "rose-tinted” glasses needed to describe that. Everyone started watching LUFC at some point, it is just a matter of when and how old you were, the era you first saw and the game and impression it left on you and why you came back for more. Unless the reader has never had that pleasure, and does not know what it means, everyone has a story to tell, but I thank Billy04MyHero, who summed it up pretty well!

Mind you living in Australia, I can understand and sympathise with the many living in far off lands that unfortunately have never had that pleasure! For my part I am very happy that someone is able to fill in the voids in my knowledge as there are vast periods when I was not in UK and consequently I appreciate their input to fill those voids.

I think most people would be aware that JJ and myself shared many of these things together from an early age, but it looks like he’s having a few days off at present!

Halfa touches on the fact he played soccer, but like me he is modest and didn’t say at what level, but I know he played at a reasonable level. I hope some of the things which follow are not too self-indulgent as I have never touched on the subject before!

As I have said, JJ and I shared many things as kids. One of them was a love of LUFC which has stood the test of time, with JJ being the more pro-active over a longer period.

There was a time when JJ lived less than 100 yards from me, we were friends then and have shared common friends over the years. The first thing I remember is a group of about four of us, I guess none of us would have been much more than 12 at the time, showing signs of being budding entrepreneurs, collecting waste paper and storing it in John’s grand-dad’s mistle/missel/missal (? Confused

) (cow-shed or barn). I think we got £48 from memory. All divided meticulously, but most of it found its way into the LUFC coffers over a period of time!

Several of us collected autographs and also found a good way to see LUFC and make money at the same time. We sold programmes at ER, which as well as the commission, had the added bonus of free entry into the hallowed halls of LUFC and a fantastic view from the benches on the touch-line. In that way, one day I was sat next to Cissie Charlton, Jack and Bobby’s mum, for a friendly in the mid/late 50’s and Bobby was a slip of a lad and Mum was very protective!

Via the programmes, I met quite a few LUSC members, the most hard-working of which was Eric Carlisle, who, unlike me, did not get a commission. I often think that if people knew the amount of unpaid work he and others have done for the club, they would be a little more tolerant.

JJ and I were still very young when he moved house and we both moved on to different Grammar schools, but kept in touch infrequently and shared common friends. We usually still met up at LUFC, selling programmes, until I started playing football and consequently stopped going.

I had a friend at school, whose father knew Ray Iggleden. Ray could get tickets to away games and pass them on. I was always grateful to them as they took me in their car and I vividly remember going to Hull on the day John Charles and LUFC realized their joint ambition of promotion to the First Division. Other times we would go to the Reserves or, if there, was a top game at Leeds Road we would go see the premier club in Yorkshire at that time, despite the townsfolk’s reputation for having a fondness for sheep and parents having having common ancestors:shock:

. This way I saw the rise of Denis Law from a scrawny squint-eyed teenager who was destined to fame elsewhere.

Several of my other school friends were avid LUFC fans and one in particular lived in the Heaths across from ER. His neighbour was successively, (not sure of the chronology) Andy McCall (not sure if Stuart was in the pram), Bobby Forrest and future England left-back Jimmy Langley. Several times we had a kick around with either Bob or Jimmy in the back alley which was common to the houses. Jimmy was a real character, extremely friendly, and what an Aussie would call a “larrikin”, but he just couldn’t break into the LUFC team. But I was very pleased he finally made the grade and played for England.

In our summer holidays we invariably went to Blackpool and through that I met Sandy Harris, a young Scottish fellow, who for several seasons was understudy to the world renowned Stanley Matthews, the first “football knight” who was generally accepted as the best player in the world at several points in his career by his peers.

Sandy had said he would take us to Bloomfield Road and we(my brother and I) could get all the Blackpool players autographs but suggested, in the meantime, we should go and see Stan Mortensen, who had a sports outfitter's shop just up the road. “Morty” was an England regular and we didn’t need asking twice. Guess I would have been 12 or so at the time. In a nutshell “Morty” was brilliant, he gave us a big discount off a cricket bat we bought, just because we knew Sandy, and spent over half an hour with us answering our questions. I later saw a movie made in USA glorifying their World Cup achievements of 1950 and in this film “Morty” was portrayed as an arrogant Englishman who looked down on the USA players with contempt. I met Morty several times and a more genuine and genial man you couldn’t wish to meet, but the “Yanks” do have a habit of rewriting History Rolling Eyes

!

I think it was the next year, or maybe the one after, when Sandy thought we were old enough to go with him to watch Blackpool training. I must say that the Blackpool players were very friendly and George Farm their Scottish International keeper let us play “shots in” against him! “Morty” was his usual friendly self and remembered us from our previous encounters and let us run up and down the terraces with him. Stanley Matthews was a bit of a grump but did give us his autograph! Don’t think I quite forgave him for keeping Sandy out of the team:wink: !

We also met up with Sandy when he came to Leeds with the Blackpool Reserve team and he took us in the dressing rooms, where we met Jimmy Armfield, who was dressed in khaki, as he was on National Service with the Army at the time. Very nice man to boot!

I had also had plenty of contact with United players and continued to do so, but only in a small way, starting back in1949-50! Captain Tommy Burden, lived a stone’s throw from where I lived and I had knocked on his door for his autograph and, being the thorough gentleman that he was, he got me all the LUFC players as well as many others including all the stars of Arsenal, who were one of the top teams of the day, when they encountered LUFC. As I say Tommy was a thorough gentleman and always had the time of day, even for a kid in short pants.

I was sad when Tommy finally moved on, but I never had much contact with Jack Scott and Wilbur Cush, who subsequently had the house. The Club then sold that house and bought four new ones in the form of a pair of semi-detacheds, either side of pathway which led to the local newsagent, which employed a young lad who needed to feed his LUFC habit from somewhere! No prizes for guessing Rolling Eyes

! I think I had started work by then but 30/- a week did not go far as I only got 10/- for myself, back in the days when LSD did not entail going on a trip and articled clerks were supposed to pay rather than be paid! Evil or Very Mad

So the swish (in those days) semis housed at least four United players or staff. On my most recent trip to Leeds I sat down with a friend who lived just up the street from them and confirmed who the occupants were and in what order. Here is what we confirmed.

# 18, the first semi on the left was Les Cocker, and his wife later bought it and still lives there to today! I did not really meet Les Cocker other than the nod of a head.

The adjoining neighbour was George O’Brien at #16, whose Scottish accent I found hard to understand but he was always friendly and we chatted often as I delivered the Sunday paper. He was never appreciated at ER but later moved to Southampton and became a very prolific scorer and good club servant for many years. When he left, little Noel Peyton, a fun loving Irishman moved in. I did not know then, but he was later to wear my shirt as he played for the team I used to play for and to this day is a firm friend of a close friend and former team-mate of mine, but I have not met Noel of late and he took my shirt after I had gone!

Across the “ginnel” was the other block of semis and first up at #14 was Chris Crowe, who was not much older than me! So it was easy to talk and relate to him but he, like me, was a bit shy and not over-gregarious, but we had several chats! Chris was a very good player and eventually gained an England cap as well as several under 23 caps, but moved on to first Blackburn then Wolves and finally Bristol. When he left I think Norman Hunter’s mum moved in to look after Norman and Terry Yorath. Gary Sprake and Paul Reaney were regular visitors, or so I am told as it was just before I ceased the round and didn’t really get to know them.

In the last semi #12, Bobby Cameron was the first occupant. I think of all the players, apart from Tommy Burden, I had more contact with Bobby than any other. He always seemed to be in the garden waiting for his paper and we always discussed the previous day’s events (there were no FL Sunday matches then!). One day United had got a fearsome hammering by Ipswich Town and he was very forthright saying they were a great team and very under-rated. He was right, they skated promotion that year and won the FL championship the next! I think that was back in 1960-61 season. He was just as interested to know how I had fared the previous day. A very nice and friendly man. He played in a very poor Leeds team but had the kick of a mule and scored several spectacular goals from distance as well as the spot. When he moved out Jimmy Ashall moved in but in 1963 I moved on away from the area, but my friend told me that Jimmy Greenhoff later lived at #25 and attracted the attention of the local girls!

I started off playing at a very early age, but the team was not very good and it was often boys against men. I recall losing to the same team on the same ground 22-2 in consecutive seasons! However things improved and the team grew up together and we had several good players.

JJ will probably relate to this as he knows the people I am talking about. Our home ground was Western Flatts Park with an unguarded area behind the goals which meant an off-target shot often resulted in the ball careering down the steep incline to the road half-a-mile away! We were playing TRF, a local works team, funnily enough where my Mum worked, and it was a bit of a grudge match with local pride at stake. Their centre-half was an ex-Leeds City Boys player (Barry Jackson). He fouled me in the first minute of the game. There was a case of handbags at five paces and the ref booked us both (there were no cards in those days!). The only time I was ever booked! The game was hard fought and no quarter given and eventually a mate (who had a Jimmy Hill beard) got booked and told the ref he was “Jimmy Hill”. This was a bit unfortunate because my brother also was cautioned for a remark after the ball disappeared down the steep hill and while telling no lies, was instantly dismissed as the referee thought he was on a wind up!

After that season it was on to bigger and better things and about four of us combined with mates who played for Melbourne Brewery to form a very competitive combined eleven. Melbourne were taken over by Tetley’s Brewery and we had a few friendlies in the Sharpe Lane ground complete in our swank new outfits and club provided boots (only the best Adidas were good enough for us, seeing money was no object Laughing

). They were against really top class opposition. Unfortunately there was “Union” problems and an objection by Tetley workers to the import of outside players and so we disbanded undefeated and with a pair of Adidas each!

Fortunately the boys decided it was too good a team to break up and we got a local sponsor and joined the league under the sponsor’s name! We came second, dropping only three points in the process, in the first season. The problem being that the only points we dropped were to the same team and they like us were otherwise undefeated and finished two points in front of us!

The next year we really hit our straps, joining the Sunday League as well. It was in the year of the big freeze 1962-63 and the pitches that were played on defied description. Sometimes the games were called off but mostly we played on whenever we could. This was great because even though United didn’t play most of the time, the backlog was cleared up mostly in midweek and all the boys got a chance to use their vocal chords and take bets on how long Ian Lawson could stay on his feet. I think the record was two minutes! Most bets were measured in seconds!

We had a fantastic season that year winning both leagues with almost maximum points. We got to the semi-final of the RTL Cup and in fact won the Semi-Final at the old LICS ground (JJ told me he and his father watched the game which we won 2-0, I think). Unfortunately, after a game was called off by a referee, with about three league games remaining, one of our players told the ref (amongst other things) that the pitch was like Wembley compared to some we had played on recently. It was the other things that he said which got us banned from the league! Unfortunately our secretary was a long-distance lorry driver and was away when the letter came summonsing him to appear before the WRFA and we got kicked out with only the Cup Final to play! After that we just played Sunday League and never finished lower than second in the League. Not sure how many times we won it as the kids broke the trophies and I threw them out!

I first left the UK at the end of the 1964-65 season, after LUFC had gone so near to getting the double, but missing out on goal difference in the League, and after extra-time in the Cup, which was the last game I attended. Only playing Sunday League had meant that I had been able to witness most of United’s games in winning the Second Division and going so close to the double the following season. It was also effectively the end of active football as I would be abroad for almost three years, but an insurance check had revealed a blockage in my heart. The doctor was incredulous when I told him I had trained three nights a week and played at least once and sometimes twice in the last five or more seasons.

While abroad I made friends with Paul Szabo, a former Hungarian International and the Doctor in charge of the local Lunatic Asylum got us both to coach the patients (can’t wait for the jibes!) but we coached them so well that they beat the representative team of the Liverpool Regiment in a friendly on the Country’s National Stadium! To be honest it included a couple of warders who were internationals and, of the rest, almost all were not mental but “economic refugees”. Paul and I both played, but at our own pace! And I got the winner with a twice-taken penalty, sending the keeper the wrong way both times, after the ref spotted an encroachment the first time!

So I arrived back in Tilbury on 30th November 1968 and went straight to Stamford Bridge with my Dad and brothers to see the boys draw with Chelsea, being able to see what I had only been able to read about in the papers for the last few years. I think I only missed the away games in Hannover and Hungary until the season finished against Forest after that memorable night at Anfield.

I have wracked my brain to recall any problems in those five months but the best I can come up with was a minor altercation at Sheff. Wed. in the drawn Cup-tie, but we travelled in my car or walked to the ground and certainly were not looking for bother! I believe the terraces were still unsegregated at that point, as we stood on the Kop at Liverpool!

I left UK for Australia in the last days of May and arrived on the first of June. I came back to UK at Xmas in 1981 and saw a bore draw v Spurs but no others, as they were postponed due to snow! So couldn’t form much of an impression then but I did notice a remarkable deterioration when I returned on a regular basis in the 1990’s right up to my last game in Cardiff!

Other minor changes in the evolution, was the introduction of floodlights in the early fifties after the success of Wolves against foreign opposition. European Competition did change the ways and mode of play and the introduction of Sunday football also had an impact, but maybe the biggest was Sky TV and the huge cash injection and Ground safety restrictions after Hillsborough etc.

I sincerely hope that wasn’t too self-indulgent but it gave me a chance to tell a story which I had intended tell at some time, but maybe as more than one. I still have quite a few anecdotes up my sleeve should I need more! The story of the houses of Leeds players I had down for a separate anecdote and the story of my childhood was another but TBH I wasn’t planning to mention my football, until prompted by association with what Halfa had said. It does expose the gaps in my LUFC attendances but makes no claim to fame, other than the team I played for was an excellent local league team who took a part- time professional team to 7-6 in an FA Cup preliminary round game!

Last time I was over, a common friend of JJ and myself, was up in Leeds with his wife and over dinner he gave me the idea, by saying in his opinion we had a privileged childhood, citing many of the things I have mentioned here. Monetarily we were not, but in happiness and things illustrated here, we certainly were and witnessed a world that later generations did not, although if they did I would be happy for them.

It should be apparent from this short story why there are big gaps in my physical presence at ER and why I did ask for other people’s opinion on those matters and thanks for doing so and don’t be afraid to add more!

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

Guildford White · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:15 am Post subject:

This wish that football could be closer to what it used to be is not purely nostalgia - it's about excitement and interest. In today's Premiership, you know before the start of the season who the top 4 teams will be, the interest is only about the particular order in which they'll finish. And as the vast amounts of money polarises ever further to the few and away from the many, that situation is going to be set in stone.

If we look back to the 1960s, when I started watching, the beauty of the old First Division was that it changed from one year to the next. Consider the top 4 teams throughout the 60s:

60-61 Spurs Sheff Wed Wolves Burnley
61-62 Ipswich Burnley Spurs Everton
62-63 Everton Spurs Burnley Leicester
63-64 Liverpool Man U Everton Spurs
64-65 Man U Leeds Chelsea Everton
65-66 Liverpool Leeds Burnley Man U
66-67 Man U Forest Spurs Leeds
67-68 Man C Man U Liverpool Leeds
68-69 Leeds Liverpool Everton Arsenal
69-70 Everton Leeds Chelsea Derby.

That's 10 years with 7 different champions, 8 different teams in second, 6 different teams in third and 8 different teams in fourth.

The start of a season was exhilarating and unpredictable - today, to be frank, it's pretty dull in comparison.

HarryofOz · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:40 am Post subject:

Guilford that is what has always been so great about football and sport in the past (though as BillH says - I'm probably romanticizing) the unpredictability of it all. But football and other sports have become more and more predictable as sport has gone from being a pass time to being a business.

_________________
There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there're four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.

Oz White · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:57 am Post subject:

That is very true and was another aspect I failed to mention. I thought I'd mentioned enough to be going on with

Cheers

_________________
Son of Leeds...Fan since Oakwell Xmas 1949...
Life wasn't meant to be easy...WE ARE LEEDS!

HarryofOz · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:03 am Post subject:

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