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nlag
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Moses..... |
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....Prophet, maker of laws, chosen by God to lead the Jews from slavery, and receiver of The Commandments.
Would you be insulted if I called my teddy bear Moses? Should I stand accused of idolatry?
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wewantourdarbyback
Lucas Radebe
Joined: 11 May 2007
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Location: Leeds University
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Its impossible to apply the same situation to a country that does not follow Sharia law. It is the law over there and no matter what we think of that, the teacher broke their law and so will recieve the punishment they see fit. I hate the idea of that law but we cannot really judge the situation from our point of view
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nlag
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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So essentially you are saying, when in Rome do what the Romans do?
What if I choose to call my cat Mohammad? Is that disrespectful? Should I stand accussed of idolatry?
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wewantourdarbyback
Lucas Radebe
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 2173
Location: Leeds University
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| If your in a country that follows shariah law you are clearly guilty under a ridiculous law, but none the less guilty. Here of course do what you want, we have what is called freedom.
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Cockney White
Boobmeister
Joined: 09 May 2007
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Location: So far from Leeds it's not funny..
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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We also moan when "visitors" to our country don't abide by our laws. Should it be any different when we are the ones doing the "visiting"?
Of course the teddy bear case is ridiculous. Even more so because the lady in question was teaching in a Christian school and the complaint was raised by some of the parents of her pupils.
Trust me when I say that this situtation is more to do with politics than it is about Islam and, as usual, real Muslims have been and will continue to denounce this type of incident. |
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nlag
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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A couple of quotes. These to me are comments made by sensible down to earth people of particular religious beliefs.:
This is unbelievable. I'm fed up of reading and hearing stupid incidents like these, which further enhance the incorrect portrayal of Islam. The teacher has quite clearly made an innocent mistake. Islam is about tolerance and forgiveness. The possible repercussions of this incident contradict this entirely. It provides more fuel for the anti-Muslim sentiment around the world.
British Muslim, London, England
To feel offended by what the teacher did is impossible. She should not be punished for something like that. I believe that the teacher is in her right mind and is aware that she is in an Islamic country. I am sure she knows what can create religious tension and she wouldn't have done such a thing on purpose. The poor lady is being accused of a sin she did not commit. I hope and pray that the UK government will take this seriously and intervene with vigour before things get out of hand. Why aren't Muslim brothers taking more kindly to such things? Sanity my people!
Salma Aki, Khartoum Sudan
I have scanned around reading up on the teacher / teddy bear story. Some senior clerics in Sudan are calling this an outrage and demanding the strongest punishment from the court. Other clerics also claim that it is a deliberate attempt by the West to insult and undermine Islam.
What we have here is a non event, blown out of all proportion, such that it has turned into a situation of International interest. It is easy to see how people are all too prepared to blame war on religion.
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nlag
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Cockney White
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Location: So far from Leeds it's not funny..
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| nlag wrote: | | So what causes conflict? Religion, or people hell bent on conflict, hiding behind religion in order to achieve their own ends? |
Nail on head, Mate.. |
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Gopher
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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What about the boys called Mohammed then?? is that not an insult calling a boy by the same name. And reports are that a boy called Mohammed named it after himself._________________ 
This week, I be mainly drinking bleach. |
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nlag
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I have read, the name Mohammad is given in respect to, and honour of the prophet. But the naming of objects and animals may be viewed as idolatry.
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Gopher
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Gopher
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Location: Riding on the window lickers bus, first class.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Dierdrie, I have this monkey called Mohammed, it has caused quite a stir by naming him so, what shall I do??
Yours sincerely
A Halibut_________________
This week, I be mainly drinking bleach. |
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cardboardbox?Youwerelucky
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wewantourdarbyback
Lucas Radebe
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Cockney White
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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halfaperson
Allan Clarke
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 788
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Theres at least two issues here. The first is religion and the frankly frightening hold it seems to have on people both collectively and individually. I aint discriminating between any of them here either. To me any doctrine that meticulously spells out how people are to live their lives means only one thing. Some bastards are having a good life at the expense of others. I aint denying the possibility of the existence of a god either but that’s a whole other topic. If there is one it is very hard to think such subjugation of the human spirit and freedoms, (the very thing god created) is part of gods plan. The only view I have on this is that some religions are worse than others and some are downright dangerous. Worse of all are the people who head the religious organizations.The're all power mad ego maniacal psychotic lunatics only interested in maintaining their position of power
The second issue here is one of awareness and respect of local law and customs no matter how stupid you might think them. You would have to have come from Mars not to be aware that muslims get rather tetchy about this sort of thing. The biggest irony to come out of all this is that the most protest seem to come from the people who believe immigrants coming over here should adopt and obey our way of life, laws and customs.
She was either very brave and humane to go over there to offer her services or totally tonto. To give her the benefit it must have been the former. If she didn’t believe what she was involved with was lilely to cause issues she must be tonto or thick. If she thought it would, but allowed it to happen anyway she must be tonto or thick. Bottom line, tonto or thick. Not a lot of sympathy here im afraid.
Now if she had said that teddy bear was good enough for Jehovah then an immediate stoning should have taken place and we could have all enjoyed it, maybe with a bag of gravel.
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30 Mill
Allan Clarke
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Location: We love you Melbourne
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Obviously she should have named the teddy "Jihad Suicide Nail Bomber"
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cardboardbox?Youwerelucky
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nlag
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| halfaperson wrote: | Theres at least two issues here. The first is religion and the frankly frightening hold it seems to have on people both collectively and individually. I aint discriminating between any of them here either. To me any doctrine that meticulously spells out how people are to live their lives means only one thing. Some bastards are having a good life at the expense of others. I aint denying the possibility of the existence of a god either but that’s a whole other topic. If there is one it is very hard to think such subjugation of the human spirit and freedoms, (the very thing god created) is part of gods plan. The only view I have on this is that some religions are worse than others and some are downright dangerous. Worse of all are the people who head the religious organizations.The're all power mad ego maniacal psychotic lunatics only interested in maintaining their position of power
The second issue here is one of awareness and respect of local law and customs no matter how stupid you might think them. You would have to have come from Mars not to be aware that muslims get rather tetchy about this sort of thing. The biggest irony to come out of all this is that the most protest seem to come from the people who believe immigrants coming over here should adopt and obey our way of life, laws and customs.
She was either very brave and humane to go over there to offer her services or totally tonto. To give her the benefit it must have been the former. If she didn’t believe what she was involved with was lilely to cause issues she must be tonto or thick. If she thought it would, but allowed it to happen anyway she must be tonto or thick. Bottom line, tonto or thick. Not a lot of sympathy here im afraid.
Now if she had said that teddy bear was good enough for Jehovah then an immediate stoning should have taken place and we could have all enjoyed it, maybe with a bag of gravel. |
Some interesting points, and hard to disagree in the main. Some generic comments about religion that I would debate, but that, as you say, is for another thread another day.
There appears to be a consensus on the thread, that we should respect the traditions, laws and beliefs of other nations and nationals when in their countries.
When does an incident become an atrocity? When are human rights transgressed? So it seems that 15 days in jail is OK. 15 days in prison for a minor faux pas. An international situation built around a toys name. I have heard say that Sudan has a savage fundamentalist government, hell bent on removing Christians from its society, and persecuting them at every opportunity. But defending the Human Rights of Christians is not fashinable or trendy, so it's not news worthy.
Christians so often are portrayed and viewed as bible bashing lunatics, but fundamentalists of any other flavour are to be honoured and respected it seems....
So what about 40 lashes? Is that OK? What about if students protest, and get shot at, will that be OK? There is a line, I am just interested to hear where people think that line is, or is it none of our business?.
In the meantime, the civilised world and civilised governments (I use the term lightly) dine all around the globe at the same table as savages.
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cardboardbox?Youwerelucky
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I would like to see Brown remove ANY aid we give this country at all and impose any sanctions we can regarding trading with us.
But we never will - we never ever send any messages out now to the outside world that we don't get pushed about and we will defend our citizens when we deem it appropriate - instead we roll over on to our backs and wait for our tummy to be tickled (or bend over and wait to take it up.......)_________________ 
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plus it keeps the headlines off brown for a few days 