halfaperson
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National DNA DatabaseOnce again its media frenzy time as a main story signals the overdrive of knee jerk response. This time its DNA database as used to great effect by Suffolk and the Met in catching and putting away sickoes.
To me its another one of those sounds like a simple good idea but in practise totally unworkable.
As it is, anyone who is arrested (not convicted) has to submit a DNA sample that gets logged on a database. To me that is pretty harsh on anyone who gets arrested for nothing (i believe that still happens).
The shear practicalities of catching every one of the population makes it a non starter any way. As with ID Cards it will do nothing to stop serious crime as i believe people sick enough to commit it are not going to think twice because of a card or spit sample.
The old argument goes that if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to fear but alas successive governments have proved that is bollocks. All this control and surveillance just puts people’s freedom into the hands of unelected and unaccountable enforcers of punishment. It just puts the control of freedom and justice into the hands of forces who have repeatedly demonstrated that they can’t be trusted with it.
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nlag
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We already have the largest database in the world. Is that because we have the highest crime rate per capita, or because the state is increasingly spying and gathering information on our private personal space and lives.
If someone is tested and not charged, the data should be scrapped. That is what happened, or at least was meant to happen, with finger printing, so why not DNA?
People do get arrested wrongly, so why should the state have the right to keep their persoal data?
With regard to recent events, I think we need some "life" institutes set up for those sickoes and other offenders that will / should never be returned to society...Life is life is a real deterrant imo.
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raveydavey
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The sicko who murdered Sally Anne Bowman was already known to the police for a sickening range of crimes going back to the mid-80's, yet he wasn't picked up until much later, despite leaving his DNA all over the murder scene. Is it just me or does it seem that old fashioned policing has gone out of the window and detectives nowadays simply wait for the computer to tell them who did it?
He used to live on the same road as her. At the time of the attack he lived several streets away. He had a record of secual crimes going back years. It hardly seems rocket science to me to suggest that after an attack like that, once of the first things to be done is to find out where all the likely suspects were at the time and to eliminate them first?
The bunch of muppets currently running the country (and I'm including the increasingly useless civil service in with the politicians there) can't be trusted to keep even basic details secure yet they want us all on a DNA database.
Look at the screw ups they've had in the last year with lost / missing data, yet they still assure us it will be secure. Very bloody likely.
This is more infringements on your civil liberties. We're already filmed almost from the moment we leave the house, tracked via mobile phone and payment cards. There was even a case in the papers last week of the police using someones mobile phone records to secure a speeding conviction (based on the time taken to travel between two specific points).
Thin end of the wedge? I think we're well past that point.
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nlag
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Broadly related, I think I heard somewhere today that the prisons are full for the first time in history....Not one cell free......What is going on?....I pay more direct tax, I pay more indirect tax, I can't get in to see a dentist, and even if I could, I don't want a second mortgage to pay for it. The doctor is too busy, my wife can't see her friendly GP, who knows the family, she has to go see a stranger in a walk in clinic with a personal problem.
My local council collect my bins every 2 weeks, we get maggots in the bins in the summer and the smell is awful, even with rubbish wrapped in paper. I do most of their recycling for them, have little choice in which schools my kids can go to, and the cops are too busy setting up speed traps to stop kids and old ladies getting beaten up by local chavs and pikeys.....Where is all the money gone? Iraq war fund?....and to top it all, the prisons are full...So build new ones....How much is that gonna cost me and you, and btw, I am so happy that the government is now into me for the liabilities of the failed bank that is Northern Rock
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raveydavey
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| nlag wrote: | Broadly related, I think I heard somewhere today that the prisons are full for the first time in history....Not one cell free......What is going on?....I pay more direct tax, I pay more indirect tax, I can't get in to see a dentist, and even if I could, I don't want a second mortgage to pay for it. The doctor is too busy, my wife can't see her friendly GP, who knows the family, she has to go see a stranger in a walk in clinic with a personal problem.
My local council collect my bins every 2 weeks, we get maggots in the bins in the summer and the smell is awful, even with rubbish wrapped in paper. I do most of their recycling for them, have little choice in which schools my kids can go to, and the cops are too busy setting up speed traps to stop kids and old ladies getting beaten up by local chavs and pikeys.....Where is all the money gone? Iraq war fund?....and to top it all, the prisons are full...So build new ones....How much is that gonna cost me and you, and btw, I am so happy that the government is now into me for the liabilities of the failed bank that is Northern Rock |
What he said ^^^^^
Agree with every word of that.
Don't forget the 2p rise in fuel duty in March either, will you?
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nlag
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| raveydavey wrote: | | nlag wrote: | Broadly related, I think I heard somewhere today that the prisons are full for the first time in history....Not one cell free......What is going on?....I pay more direct tax, I pay more indirect tax, I can't get in to see a dentist, and even if I could, I don't want a second mortgage to pay for it. The doctor is too busy, my wife can't see her friendly GP, who knows the family, she has to go see a stranger in a walk in clinic with a personal problem.
My local council collect my bins every 2 weeks, we get maggots in the bins in the summer and the smell is awful, even with rubbish wrapped in paper. I do most of their recycling for them, have little choice in which schools my kids can go to, and the cops are too busy setting up speed traps to stop kids and old ladies getting beaten up by local chavs and pikeys.....Where is all the money gone? Iraq war fund?....and to top it all, the prisons are full...So build new ones....How much is that gonna cost me and you, and btw, I am so happy that the government is now into me for the liabilities of the failed bank that is Northern Rock |
What he said ^^^^^
Agree with every word of that.
Don't forget the 2p rise in fuel duty in March either, will you? |
I had forgotten that. So anyone needing a car is indirectly taxed more for trying to earn honest corn
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cardboardbox?Youwerelucky
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| nlag wrote: | Broadly related, I think I heard somewhere today that the prisons are full for the first time in history....Not one cell free......What is going on?....I pay more direct tax, I pay more indirect tax, I can't get in to see a dentist, and even if I could, I don't want a second mortgage to pay for it. The doctor is too busy, my wife can't see her friendly GP, who knows the family, she has to go see a stranger in a walk in clinic with a personal problem.
My local council collect my bins every 2 weeks, we get maggots in the bins in the summer and the smell is awful, even with rubbish wrapped in paper. I do most of their recycling for them, have little choice in which schools my kids can go to, and the cops are too busy setting up speed traps to stop kids and old ladies getting beaten up by local chavs and pikeys.....Where is all the money gone? Iraq war fund?....and to top it all, the prisons are full...So build new ones....How much is that gonna cost me and you, and btw, I am so happy that the government is now into me for the liabilities of the failed bank that is Northern Rock |
Nlag - there was a recent report that stated people are worse off now than in 1992 (which was just after the last major recession) - as you have stated above we are taxed to the hilt from every angle - as a business, as an individual, as a home owner, as a car driver, you name it we pay extortionate amounts of tax on it - (I think I had a seperate thread ranting about this  )
As for "where does all the money go" - add up just over the last 2 years the amount of money this government has "lost" or "overspent" and that will give you your answer - I keep meaning to research this properly but always never find the time - but I know the figure is WELL into the Billions WASTED. And for that alone this government should be kicked out for incompetence. In any other line of business a company would have been declared insolvent and put into administration (I remember a certain football club that did this  ) - but this shower of shite just keep on bleating and spending and losing money hand over fist. For the first 4 years I gave them the benefit of the doubt with their "the conservatives left things in such a mess" excuses but that no longer holds water - don't get me wrong it DOES take many many years for policies to change certain aspects and usually the government that brought them in loses out as the changes appear to be that of the current government. But pissing away peoples money is just utter incompetence and heads should have rolled right from the start - fucking Harriet Harman announces losses of billions of pounds as if she just lost a fiver in the washing machine.
And then companies increase prices whilst announcing millions / billions of pounds worth of PROFIT (not turnover - PROFIT) and THAT is what really sticks in my throat. The Banks & Energy Companies being the particular bandits in this sector 
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30 Mill
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Mods - Move this to the Random irritations thread please - its just a rant against everything thread now
If you want to keep the discussion to DNA database, I'll play devils advocate
Why not store everyones dna? As long as its used just for 'crime" and not for "superhumans" or insurance policies or "child building" then why not?
My fingerprints have been on file since 1980 as Im sure the Armed Services folk in the UK are too. Now its not a deterant, and I doubt it will ever by, but if we do this we can could greatly assist in catching the scum once they do commit acrime - Oh and it would also assist in reducing (not stopping) but reducing the number of incorrect convictions
Lets use all the tools at our disposal to do the job properly - just make sure the tools are 'work safe"
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Cockney White
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A DNA database is a great idea and not just for solving crime and convicting murderers. It would also help emergency crews identify accident victims quickly, be it dead ones who may not be identifyable any other way and so enable loved ones to be notified speedily, or to quickly establish the blood type of live accident victims who may be unconcious but need an urgent blood transfusion to save their life.
The problem is that, given the Government can't be trusted with the names, addresses and bank details of people receiving child benefit without "losing" it all, God only knows what they'd do with the DNA profiles of 60 million people! 
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raveydavey
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| Cockney White wrote: | A DNA database is a great idea and not just for solving crime and convicting murderers. It would also help emergency crews identify accident victims quickly, be it dead ones who may not be identifyable any other way and so enable loved ones to be notified speedily, or to quickly establish the blood type of live accident victims who may be unconcious but need an urgent blood transfusion to save their life.
The problem is that, given the Government can't be trusted with the names, addresses and bank details of people receiving child benefit without "losing" it all, God only knows what they'd do with the DNA profiles of 60 million people! |
That is one of the big issues - the insurance companies are already pressing for access to data regarding individals genetics - if you're in an "at risk" group watch your premiums soar if they get their way. Can you really trust the powers that be to keep YOUR data safe?
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halfaperson
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Hell no. The way the world is going makes me glad im a jaffa (seedless  ). I really do fear for the future. It is in the hands of complete lunatics.
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nlag
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I don't trust the authorities to secure the data. I don't trust the authorities to restrain from abusing the data. I don't trust the police who will find any way they can to fit the right people up. It is an abuse of personal liberty.
I broke the law, got my tabs taken....Fair enough. If I join the army, that is my choice and I take what goes with it.....Otherwise, get the hell out of my life.
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