nlag
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4 from 9In a week when 9 points would be expected for a team challenging for a high finish, Leeds manage to win 4. Simply not good enough. Walsall, Brighton, Millwall and Yeovil are all must wins now IMO.
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HarryofOz
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Disgraceful four points out of nine against teams heading for League 2.
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Cockney White
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No excuses today..That was a disgrace..Can anyone remember the last time Beckford scored..?! 
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nlag
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I can remember him missing a lot. Penalty v Forest was his last I think
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nlag
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His last goal in open play was 2 months ago v Crewe.....Elding and Freedman IN
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Cockney White
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I was just going to ask whether anyone knows what Macca has against Elding. Why he keeps overlooking him I just do not know!
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raveydavey
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Absolutey f***ing useless.
To be 2-0 up and then only scrape a draw against relegation fodder is not good enough.
They are not fit to wear the shirt and Gary Mac is proving himself to be woefully out of his depth.
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nlag
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Who knows what they see in training, that we are not privvy too. 
Maybe he thinks Beckford is due a hot run, and that Freedman is the man for him to play off. Personally I would rather see Freedman play off Elding for at least 45.
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weasel
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More concerning is the fact that we are leaking goals left right and centre and even in the games we won recently we rode our luck defensively. Yet again we play without a left back and the defence which had looked fairly solid all season has been awful. It certainly wasn't this bad with both Huntington and Parker playing and likewise when the centreback pairing wa Heath and Marques.
To be 2 up and then to be 3-2 up and only draw is disgraceful.
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cardboardbox?Youwerelucky
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Fucking Cock - steaming pile of shiteing bollocks - IF we can't hold a 2-0 lead against THE WORST team in this division we don't fucking deserve a solitary point - our record against the bottom few teams is atrocious and an utter disgrace - Macca needs to sort things out otherwise he will be added to my recent list of twatty Leeds Managers
Utterly fucked off
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raveydavey
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| cardboardbox?Youwerelucky wrote: | Fucking Cock - steaming pile of shiteing bollocks - IF we can't hold a 2-0 lead against THE WORST team in this division we don't fucking deserve a solitary point - our record against the bottom few teams is atrocious and an utter disgrace - Macca needs to sort things out otherwise he will be added to my recent list of twatty Leeds Managers
Utterly fucked off |
We haven't had a decent manager since Peter Reid was crapped on from a great height by our so called superstars.
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30 Mill
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| raveydavey wrote: | Absolutey f***ing useless.
To be 2-0 up and then only scrape a draw against relegation fodder is not good enough.
They are not fit to wear the shirt and Gary Mac is proving himself to be woefully out of his depth. |
Cmon mate - Most folks with even 1/2 a brain cell knew he wouldnt cut the mustard. Would probably make a good Number 2 or "skills" coach, but not the gaffer - sorry - but the results were there for all to see
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eddiesleftfoot
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Port vale are without doubt the worst (away!) team I've seen at ER this season and yet we fail to hold out against them. Now we are 10th I just think we will miss the boat this season 
Got to be honest though, never fancied our chances if in a play off final given our dismal recent final performances. We need to go up automatically.
Fuck Fuck Fuck
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nlag
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| 30 Mill wrote: |
Cmon mate - Most folks with even 1/2 a brain cell knew he wouldnt cut the mustard. |
Cigar for Bates 
(PS....I fixed your quote problems for you brains   )
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Tanhilltimmy
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| 30 Mill wrote: | | raveydavey wrote: | Absolutey f***ing useless.
To be 2-0 up and then only scrape a draw against relegation fodder is not good enough.
They are not fit to wear the shirt and Gary Mac is proving himself to be woefully out of his depth. |
Cmon mate - Most folks with even 1/2 a brain cell knew he wouldnt cut the mustard. Would probably make a good Number 2 or "skills" coach, but not the gaffer - sorry - but the results were there for all to see |
Couple of things, whilst broadly I agree our problems are manifest (why our two international CD's are struggling god only knows), blaming Mac is pure bollox, firstly the midfield is not our worst ever, Kilkenny had a bad one but in the first half we passed it well (but without product mainly because Beckford was in "I'm too good to work" mode), Johnson, Howson and Prutton showed touches and battling and for 20 mins in the second half till the pen ran Vale ragged (ref shite BTW).
Secondly, being booed is not an excuse for Kandol being given any sympathy (and given we had Elding on the bench also the booing was justified), if we can take one positive out of yesterday it was Freedman and the knowledge we should never see Kandol start for us again, Freedman showed us what we have missed this season.
Wise's chickens have come home to roost, Beckford is off his game and selfish, both FB positions are an issue and our depth for a squad with 35+ professionals is dire (thanks for that messes Bates, Williams and Wise  ). If we limp into the play-offs it will only be due to having miraciluosly got some points back. Questions on Bates and his judgement will be rite large this summer I feel.
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NE1
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| raveydavey wrote: | | cardboardbox?Youwerelucky wrote: | Fucking Cock - steaming pile of shiteing bollocks - IF we can't hold a 2-0 lead against THE WORST team in this division we don't fucking deserve a solitary point - our record against the bottom few teams is atrocious and an utter disgrace - Macca needs to sort things out otherwise he will be added to my recent list of twatty Leeds Managers
Utterly fucked off |
We haven't had a decent manager since Peter Reid was crapped on from a great height by our so called superstars. |
Peter Reid was effing useless and has been at every club he managed
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weasel
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| Tanhilltimmy wrote: |
Couple of things, whilst broadly I agree our problems are manifest (why our two international CD's are struggling god only knows), blaming Mac is pure bollox, firstly the midfield is not our worst ever, Kilkenny had a bad one but in the first half we passed it well (but without product mainly because Beckford was in "I'm too good to work" mode), Johnson, Howson and Prutton showed touches and battling and for 20 mins in the second half till the pen ran Vale ragged (ref shite BTW).
Secondly, being booed is not an excuse for Kandol being given any sympathy (and given we had Elding on the bench also the booing was justified), if we can take one positive out of yesterday it was Freedman and the knowledge we should never see Kandol start for us again, Freedman showed us what we have missed this season.
Wise's chickens have come home to roost, Beckford is off his game and selfish, both FB positions are an issue and our depth for a squad with 35+ professionals is dire (thanks for that messes Bates, Williams and Wise ). If we limp into the play-offs it will only be due to having miraciluosly got some points back. Questions on Bates and his judgement will be rite large this summer I feel. |
Whilst not wishing to start an argument though if things aren't working and the manager has other options then it is his fault if he doesn't take the other options. If a player is 'too big for the club' drop him or sub him - it is up to the manager to tell him how he wants him to play and if the player doesn't do it then haul him off.
I'll give Macca a lot of credit for persuading Freedman to come. Hopefully there is more to come from Dougie. But it astonished me that Elding after scoring in midweek doesn't even get on the pitch at all. He must have been on such a high on Tuesday night to have got a goal (and a reasonable one as well) and confidence is key for strikers. All this aclimatising stuff is b*llox it is only 1 division above. Yes no one should boo Kandol but why does everyone bar Macca want Elding to be given a chance instead?
The left back situation is entirely Macca's making. Okay the Villa guy may have turned out to be decent but why have Sheehan at the club if he isn't going to even be 3rd choice left back and why ship Parker out on loan? We may have 25 players but I'm sure Parker's wages won't be extortionate enough to risk promotion for.
In the week Macca claimed we lack decent delivery yet Sweeney, Carole, Sorsa, DaCosta all don't get a look in yet the people that keep playing (and are therefore the ones who can't get the delivery right) keep getting picked.
I liked Macca as a player but he is not doing a good job for us. There is no point blaming Wise for the current mess as he achieved a great start with the players we had and then increased the options before he left. I think a lot of managers could do a lot better than we have recently with these players.
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raveydavey
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| 30 Mill wrote: | | raveydavey wrote: | Absolutey f***ing useless.
To be 2-0 up and then only scrape a draw against relegation fodder is not good enough.
They are not fit to wear the shirt and Gary Mac is proving himself to be woefully out of his depth. |
Cmon mate - Most folks with even 1/2 a brain cell knew he wouldnt cut the mustard. Would probably make a good Number 2 or "skills" coach, but not the gaffer - sorry - but the results were there for all to see |
Unlike many who rolled over in adulation when the appointment was announced, I had doubts from the start. However, the guy was a fine player for us and I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on that standing.
His time is quickly running out though as our promotion chances slip away.
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30 Mill
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I still find it amusing some still blame Wise and bates for our form slump
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Cockney White
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| 30 Mill wrote: | | I still find it amusing some still blame Wise and bates for our form slump |
There is nothing about this season that I find amusing, but what I cannot understand is anyone who still thinks that Wise should take all the credit for our great run at the start of the season. Our season started to go downhill the moment Poyet left..end of!
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Tanhilltimmy
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| weasel wrote: | | Tanhilltimmy wrote: |
Couple of things, whilst broadly I agree our problems are manifest (why our two international CD's are struggling god only knows), blaming Mac is pure bollox, firstly the midfield is not our worst ever, Kilkenny had a bad one but in the first half we passed it well (but without product mainly because Beckford was in "I'm too good to work" mode), Johnson, Howson and Prutton showed touches and battling and for 20 mins in the second half till the pen ran Vale ragged (ref shite BTW).
Secondly, being booed is not an excuse for Kandol being given any sympathy (and given we had Elding on the bench also the booing was justified), if we can take one positive out of yesterday it was Freedman and the knowledge we should never see Kandol start for us again, Freedman showed us what we have missed this season.
Wise's chickens have come home to roost, Beckford is off his game and selfish, both FB positions are an issue and our depth for a squad with 35+ professionals is dire (thanks for that messes Bates, Williams and Wise ). If we limp into the play-offs it will only be due to having miraciluosly got some points back. Questions on Bates and his judgement will be rite large this summer I feel. |
Whilst not wishing to start an argument though if things aren't working and the manager has other options then it is his fault if he doesn't take the other options. If a player is 'too big for the club' drop him or sub him - it is up to the manager to tell him how he wants him to play and if the player doesn't do it then haul him off.
I'll give Macca a lot of credit for persuading Freedman to come. Hopefully there is more to come from Dougie. But it astonished me that Elding after scoring in midweek doesn't even get on the pitch at all. He must have been on such a high on Tuesday night to have got a goal (and a reasonable one as well) and confidence is key for strikers. All this aclimatising stuff is b*llox it is only 1 division above. Yes no one should boo Kandol but why does everyone bar Macca want Elding to be given a chance instead?
The left back situation is entirely Macca's making. Okay the Villa guy may have turned out to be decent but why have Sheehan at the club if he isn't going to even be 3rd choice left back and why ship Parker out on loan? We may have 25 players but I'm sure Parker's wages won't be extortionate enough to risk promotion for.
In the week Macca claimed we lack decent delivery yet Sweeney, Carole, Sorsa, DaCosta all don't get a look in yet the people that keep playing (and are therefore the ones who can't get the delivery right) keep getting picked.
I liked Macca as a player but he is not doing a good job for us. There is no point blaming Wise for the current mess as he achieved a great start with the players we had and then increased the options before he left. I think a lot of managers could do a lot better than we have recently with these players. |
In order to avoid a arguement your going to have to be less cavilier with the facts...take these two eight games runs:
LDDDWWLD
DLLWWLDL
which ones Mac's first 8 games? Which ones Wises last eight? A clue? Mac's is the one with less defeats! The only common denomintor is the players available, of which Mac has brought in 1! So Mac is doing better with the players Wise left behind (and with more emphasis on football) than the guy responsable for signing most of them could 16 months and one relegation into the job. On that basis alone you arguement falls down but its worse than that, to say its not Wise's fault is to begger belief (and I suspect you and 30m stand alone there). I for one was prepared to give Wise some slack to try and over come the legacy of Blackwell, the least you could do is give Mac some simular slack (particulary as its clear already that whatever minor "mistakes" he might be making he isn't makes the cack handed ones that pepper Wises first 3 months).
BTW, feel free to list the out of work managers you think could have done better, I need the laugh!
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HarryofOz
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| 30 Mill wrote: | | I still find it amusing some still blame Wise and bates for our form slump |
Not as funny as those who put last season's relegation purely on Blackwell's shoulders.
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weasel
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The trouble is you can't just judge it on those last 8 games of Wise's reign which presumably included the defeat against inform Doncaster rather than poor results against bottom half teams.
Over the course of the season Wise got a team into a very good position averaging about 2 points a game. That was with the set of players Macca has. No one was sold apart from Derry who hadn't featured at all for Wise anyway. Yes things were falling apart a bit but we weren't leaking goals like we are now and were generally playing teams in form such as Oldham (who also beat Everton in their 7 match away winning run).
Macca has got all the players (barring Douglas due to his injury) that Wise had and all the new signings. Regardless of their overall quality most are good enough for this level. He also brought in Sheehan, signed Elding etc
So Macca has inherited a squad that has shown itself capable of getting results but needed steering back on course after a couple of months of average results. It is up to him to pick the best XI, judge which players are in form etc. He is failing. I'd prefer him not to be as I want him to do well and want him to bring exciting football to Leeds but his decisions, as listed before, have seemed baffling and poor judgements.
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Cockney White
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| weasel wrote: | The trouble is you can't just judge it on those last 8 games of Wise's reign which presumably included the defeat against inform Doncaster rather than poor results against bottom half teams.
Over the course of the season Wise (Poyet) got a team into a very good position averaging about 2 points a game. That was with the set of players Macca has. No one was sold apart from Derry (big mistake) who hadn't featured at all for Wise anyway. Yes things were falling apart a bit (a lot) but we weren't leaking goals like we are now and were generally playing teams in form such as Oldham (who also beat Everton in their 7 match away winning run).
Macca has got all the players (barring Douglas due to his injury) that Wise had and all the new signings. Regardless of their overall quality most are good enough for this level. He also brought in Sheehan, signed Elding (ear-marked by Wise before he left) etc
So Macca has inherited a squad that has shown itself capable of getting results (under Poyet) but needed steering back on course after a couple of months of average (poor) results. It is up to him to pick the best XI, judge which players are in form etc. He is failing. I'd prefer him not to be as I want him to do well and want him to bring exciting football to Leeds but his decisions, as listed before, have seemed baffling and poor judgements. |
Just a bit more realism injected in to your otherwise accurate post, Weasel..
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BillH
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| Tanhilltimmy wrote: |
In order to avoid a arguement your going to have to be less cavilier with the facts...take these two eight games runs:
LDDDWWLD
DLLWWLDL
which ones Mac's first 8 games? Which ones Wises last eight? A clue? Mac's is the one with less defeats! The only common denomintor is the players available, of which Mac has brought in 1! So Mac is doing better with the players Wise left behind (and with more emphasis on football) than the guy responsable for signing most of them could 16 months and one relegation into the job. On that basis alone you arguement falls down but its worse than that, to say its not Wise's fault is to begger belief (and I suspect you and 30m stand alone there). I for one was prepared to give Wise some slack to try and over come the legacy of Blackwell, the least you could do is give Mac some simular slack (particulary as its clear already that whatever minor "mistakes" he might be making he isn't makes the cack handed ones that pepper Wises first 3 months).
BTW, feel free to list the out of work managers you think could have done better, I need the laugh! |
Dozens of them, most likely, but I'd quite phappily put forward Martin Allen as someone who would have come and done a better job.
The problem with Macca isn't just the 8 game run - though it should be pointed out that it's his best run so far as well and as such it certainly doesn't compare with Wise's best run. It's the fact that he's never been anything more than very mediocre as a manager and he seems incapable of motivating the players currently at the club, who include those who started the season so well - or would include them if Macca hadn't shipped them out. Arguably, he has in fact got a better squad to pick from.
I have no idea what it is he's trying to achieve, but the way he's going he won't be around to finish what he's started. It's a shame, but great players don't always make great managers. Leeds United can't afford to wait another season or two while the manager learns his trade.
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Tanhilltimmy
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So what did we learn from the Walsall game then?
That we are a better team passing it than hoofing it..
That the guile and craft we have been looking for up front arrived in spades with Freedman..
That Prutton, Howson and Kilkenny can boss a midfield and have a range of passes..
That the criticism of Mac from last week looks like the pathetic self indulgence it always was and that if we want to allow the best shot at promotion we can get, be it on the pitch via the play-offs or in the arbitration process its time for the nay-sayers and serial moaners to shut up or piss off.
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nlag
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More to the point, what did the players learn? Hopefully, that when they passed the ball, we controlled the game and created chances, and that when we hoofed the ball, we came under pressure and looked shakey.
I will stick with Macca, as I stuck with Wise, despite the fact that he managed to relegate a mid table side last season to its lowest ever status.
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BillH
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| Tanhilltimmy wrote: | So what did we learn from the Walsall game then?
That we are a better team passing it than hoofing it..
That the guile and craft we have been looking for up front arrived in spades with Freedman..
That Prutton, Howson and Kilkenny can boss a midfield and have a range of passes..
That the criticism of Mac from last week looks like the pathetic self indulgence it always was and that if we want to allow the best shot at promotion we can get, be it on the pitch via the play-offs or in the arbitration process its time for the nay-sayers and serial moaners to shut up or piss off. |
All of that from one game? Gee, we must be quick learners...
Actually what Macca is trying to do - get us playing proper football - is both admirable and desirable, but questions remain over his ability to turn good ideas into consistently good results. He didn't do it at Coventry and so far he hasn't done it at Leeds, though admittedly he hasn't had much time.
As for arbitration, I'm not holding my breath. Should we get enough points back to get promoted at this stage of the season there will be legal challenges aplenty and the whole thing will drag on throughout the summer, which is the last thing we need after last year's farce.
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weasel
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I didn't knock the fact we were trying to play better football just some of the strange decisions made. Yesterday the decisions were the ones I'd asked for such as the introduction of a left back at left back, yesterday presumably gave us better balance and sructure, and the dropping of Kandol. Would Macca would have dropped Hughes if he wasn't suspended though?
All I want is a manager making us play better, win games we should win and not ruin our chances by making poor decisions. Yesterday = correct decisions, correct football and correct result.
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NE1
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| BillH wrote: | | Tanhilltimmy wrote: | So what did we learn from the Walsall game then?
That we are a better team passing it than hoofing it..
That the guile and craft we have been looking for up front arrived in spades with Freedman..
That Prutton, Howson and Kilkenny can boss a midfield and have a range of passes..
That the criticism of Mac from last week looks like the pathetic self indulgence it always was and that if we want to allow the best shot at promotion we can get, be it on the pitch via the play-offs or in the arbitration process its time for the nay-sayers and serial moaners to shut up or piss off. |
All of that from one game? Gee, we must be quick learners...
Actually what Macca is trying to do - get us playing proper football - is both admirable and desirable, but questions remain over his ability to turn good ideas into consistently good results. He didn't do it at Coventry and so far he hasn't done it at Leeds, though admittedly he hasn't had much time.
As for arbitration, I'm not holding my breath. Should we get enough points back to get promoted at this stage of the season there will be legal challenges aplenty and the whole thing will drag on throughout the summer, which is the last thing we need after last year's farce. |
Presumably, then, you feel we should just accept the 15pt deduction and move on?
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raveydavey
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| NE1 wrote: | | BillH wrote: | | Tanhilltimmy wrote: | So what did we learn from the Walsall game then?
That we are a better team passing it than hoofing it..
That the guile and craft we have been looking for up front arrived in spades with Freedman..
That Prutton, Howson and Kilkenny can boss a midfield and have a range of passes..
That the criticism of Mac from last week looks like the pathetic self indulgence it always was and that if we want to allow the best shot at promotion we can get, be it on the pitch via the play-offs or in the arbitration process its time for the nay-sayers and serial moaners to shut up or piss off. |
All of that from one game? Gee, we must be quick learners...
Actually what Macca is trying to do - get us playing proper football - is both admirable and desirable, but questions remain over his ability to turn good ideas into consistently good results. He didn't do it at Coventry and so far he hasn't done it at Leeds, though admittedly he hasn't had much time.
As for arbitration, I'm not holding my breath. Should we get enough points back to get promoted at this stage of the season there will be legal challenges aplenty and the whole thing will drag on throughout the summer, which is the last thing we need after last year's farce. |
Presumably, then, you feel we should just accept the 15pt deduction and move on? |
I still feel the constant diversion of attention to the nasty football league and the 15 point deduction is a welcome smokescreen for other goings on at the club. Like we still don't know who owns the ground that Bates insisted he was going to buy back and give to the fans. Or the awarding of exclusive commentary rights to Radio Ken. Or the ever increasing ticket proces. Or wanting next seasons season ticket money before this season is over.
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